I’ve never placed much importance on dreams.
Was that dream I had of Danny DeVito starting a nail salon, really that relevant to my subconscious? It was weird, but probably not.
But what about recurring dreams? They make more sense to me, it feels like a representation of trauma or insecurity trying to break out of my brain.
What’s even more interesting to me is that millions of people share the same recurring dreams. Like how does that work?
Teeth falling out is a very common one. I used to have that all the time. Another recurring one I have occasionally is going back to school and showing up for final exams, but I forgot to go to some of the classes.
This episode isn’t actually about whether dreams are meaningful or not, I have no idea.
It’s about controlling them.
My name is Lowell Brillante, and this is Prodigy.
E.S. Fein is an author and expert on lucid dreaming. Also, he’s just a super nice dude that’s become more like a friend than a guest. I’ll let him explain what lucid dreaming is, why it’s so cool, and how to do it.
Eric: So I’m the author of a science fiction, novel called points of origin. I’m working on my second novel right now called a dream of waking life, which is all about lucid dreaming and insanity and drug use. Very excited to be here, talking about lucid dreaming, and I’m thinking you have a lot more questions for me.
Lowell: Can you explain what lucid dreaming is?
Eric: So a lucid dream is a dream in which, you’re dreaming and you have full control of that dream. A lot of times people think that they lose a dream to just by knowing that they’re dreaming. But a full lucid dream would be one in which you have full control of that.
And you can have powers. You can ultimately do whatever you want. It’s just the extent of your imagine. At first, you’re not going to be amazing ally. I know a lot of people say, Hey, I can’t wait to start lucid dreaming. I’ll be able to do whatever I want instantly. Unfortunately, that’s not the case.
It’s very much like the superhero movies, where they get their powers and they gotta learn how to use them. It is very similar. You are using a whole new part of your mind in a very new way. I have known many people who are naturals who say, Hey, they have full extensive powers. When I say powers, Flying, meeting and people having sex laser eyes, literally, whatever you can think of.
If you can say it, if you can speak it, then yes, you’ll be able to do it. If you can conceptualize it. At first though, for me, I couldn’t even fly. I would put my hands up in the air and try to Superman fly and it just wouldn’t go anywhere. So for a lot of people to learn powers and to unlock those things and stop yourself from limiting yourself, you got to anchor yourself.
So I started by going to the top of the building and just jumping off. And I started by gliding slowly down. And once I felt that I could glide and disobeyed gravity, it became a lot easier to start the Superman flying. 20 years later though, I’ll tell you what, I still have to do little swim motions to keep myself fully in the air.
So I still don’t have it fully unlocked certain things you’re just going to be limiting yourself on. And that’s just up to the person. Yeah, I heard you got to pay extra
Lowell: Yeah, I heard you got to pay extra to get a full flight features.
Eric: Nowadays yea EA has full control
Lowell: why would somebody want to lucid dream?
Eric: Obviously there’s the recreational aspect.
You can have fun, you can do whatever you want me to, whoever you want. But there’s also a deeper aspect to it. There’s the philosophical nature of it. You can explore parts of yourself that you simply otherwise couldn’t for exist. You can request from the dream. Hey, I’d like to meet the creative part of myself and you can talk directly to the creative aspects of yourself.
You can even go so far as to begin changing yourself. You can alter the Eagle, you can do some meta programming, ultimately. So it’s a form of meditation in that way. It’s also a form of catharsis. You can revisit dead relatives. You can revisit moments of your life that you’d like to redo and you can redo them.
You can also revisit nightmares. When I was a kid, I had a nightmare of the wicked witch of the west and Dracula, cause I used to watch those when I was a kid. And later in life when I started lucid dreaming, I revisited those characters, even though I hadn’t had nightmares in very long and I basically became friends with them and they’re now recurring characters in my dreams.
And. All that the old nightmares and the old trauma from that it’s gone, I was able to fully heal it. So there’s many reasons you can do this. I know a lot of people that claim to do sports in lucid dreams and improve their motor functions, which a lot of studies have shown that is reasonable.
Just by thinking about certain exercises, you do get some neurological connections going on there for muscles. But I’m not a big sports guy. I’ve never really attempted that. But I did study for classes in school. I was very academically inclined. And so I would, do memorization and I bring different topics into the dreams and hone my skills there.
As language, especially when I was learning Spanish. So it really is a multitude of reasons. If you can think of it, go for it, man. You can do it in the dreams.
Lowell: It’s it’s so funny to me, when you say I would use my lucid dreaming to study it.’s just I don’t know. It’s just funny.
Eric: Looking back on it as a person I am now, it is absolutely hilarious.
And I’m like, really, dude, that’s what you were doing in there. But yeah, that, that was very important to me at the time. So yeah, because
Lowell: I’ve had lucid dreams a couple of times, I didn’t do it on purpose. It was an accident, but yeah I can barely imagine how somebody would study in it,
Eric: Yeah. Once you get used, this was probably three, four years into, doing maybe five lucid dreams a night when I was really good at it. And this was before the consumption of cannabis to cannabis, definitely clouds. The experience definitely makes it harder. And a regular cannabis user now.
Probably maximum, I’m doing maybe three, four lucid dreams a week. It’s very hard to do it multiple times a night now, too. Without the use of cannabis, especially when I was younger explosive amounts of lucid dreaming explicit. Yes. Just so much, especially as it gets. And I’ll be honest as a kid too, you’re meeting celebrities and you’re having fun.
So I’m like, yeah, every night. Absolutely. I want to be having fun here. Come on. Yeah.
Lowell: So I have an inappropriate joke to make but I’m gonna hold back.
Eric: I encourage you to say it.
Lowell: But um how did you get into lucid dreaming?
Eric: Very randomly. I had a friend at the time.
I was a big loner when I was young, but I had one of my only friends at the time just randomly said, Hey man I ran across this at the library, this thing called lucid dreaming. I feel like it’s something you’d be into. I was like, I’d never heard of it, but I’ll check it out. Yeah, it was absolutely into it.
So that was it. It was just a buddy told me about it. But how long ago was this? This was when I was 13. So this would have been just about 20 years ago. How I really, got even more into it though. And it explored it and really learn how it works was through a forum. I’m pretty darn sure.
Still exists. It’s called L D for all. The number four, all and just a giant community of lucid dreamers that like to help each other and give to them. All the ranges too, of ages and there’s 50 year olds on there and there’s ten-year-olds on there. So I was started on there when I was 13 or 14.
And I haven’t been back there in about 10 years, but unbelievably helpful. They were so cool. We did a lot of cool experiments on that forum too. We tried share dreaming hundreds of times. So we would get close to certain people and we would exchange passwords and we would try to go to the exact same place in our dreams.
Give each other, those passwords. And then when we woke up, we would have to state what the password was and see if it worked. It never worked, shared dreaming has never worked once. I don’t think it’s possible, but it was fun to try out and see. So
Lowell: how does someone go about lucid dreaming?
Eric: So in the beginning, you really want to use techniques that are a little more passive there’s passive and there’s direct techniques.
So the passive technique would be number one, get a drink. Either a voice recorder or a physical journal, I F I found a voice recorder much easier. But start writing down or speaking what you experience in your dreams, whatever you can remember. A lot of people say, Hey, I don’t dream at all.
First of all, you do dream. You just don’t remember them. So other people would say, I don’t remember my dreams at some point, though, especially as you go about your day, thinking about dreaming, thinking about lucid dreaming, this type of functionality throughout the day is going to make you drink. I’ve never met a person that said it didn’t work to some degree.
So when you start dreaming, write down anything, whether it’s an emotion, a color, anything the very next night, your dream recall and vividness will increase significantly. So the number one thing you want to do is think about lucid dreaming throughout the day. Be writing in your dreams. Once you’ve been doing that for a couple of days.
You want to start doing what’s called a reality checks. And throughout the day, you want to either look at your hand. You can try breathing without opening your mouth. You can try touching surfaces and seeing if your hand goes through them.
Lowell: Yeah. I heard touching. Hand, like putting your finger into your palm.
Eric: Finger in the poems and other one of them. I really like looking at clocks or texts, cause it’s always weird in my dreams for other people. It isn’t. But when you do that, you’re going to ask yourself, am I dreaming? Actually, when I was 18, I got a tattoo on my wrist. It says awake with a question. And that is an exceptional reality check.
And so constantly throughout the day, I’m just seeing that tattoo and going, am I awake? Am I awake by repeating these questions constantly over and over again, you’re just setting up these algorithmic patterns in your brain and giving yourself a much, much better chance of that same question coming up during your dream naturally.
So now that you’ve combined your. Reality checks. You’re constantly thinking about dreaming. You’re writing down your dreams in your notebook to increase your vividness. And your recall as you go to sleep, you’re going to do what’s called mild pneumonic, induce lucid dreaming reportedly. This is something Steven Limburg created one of the fathers of lucid dreaming.
So what you’re going to do is just relax. You can utilize any relaxation technique you want. As you’re falling asleep. I like to tense my body up really tight. And then like this. Provides a lot of relaxation to the muscles. And then you’re going to imagine in your head that you are doing something very specific, have a goal.
For me, it was always flying in the beginning. So I’d imagine myself, I’d feel myself flying through the air and I’d repeat affirmation to my. I am going to dream. I am going to loose a dream. This is going to work. I am going to lose a dream. As you pass into the dream, your tie, it’s just a gamble.
You’re hoping that the reality checks you did and your focus and attention will allow you the question to come up and will allow you to go, Hey, am I dreaming? No, I, yes. I am dreaming that. This is crazy. Here we go. Now I’m lucid. If, once you get good though, and I highly recommend people try this anyway, you can utilize a combination.
What’s called awake back to bed and wild, a wake induced lucid dreaming. You really, you can use wake back to bed. Anytime. That just means you wake up in the middle of the night, stay up for a few minutes to an hour and then go back to sleep. You’re a recalling dream. The Venice will be markedly increased.
But wild wake induced, lucid dreaming. This is it’s very simple. Once you get the hang of it and it’s very dependable, you lay down, you imagine a certain scene for most people. It’s a repeated scene for me. It’s like a pine grow forest. And as you’re falling asleep into the hypnagogic state, feeling that dream coming over you just step foot directly into the scene and you’re.
You don’t have to hope for a gamble. You don’t have to hope for the question to come up. You’re just instantly lucid. That one took years to master, but anyone can do mild and wake back to bed. Anyone can do that. So that’s where you’d want to start.
Lowell: Since you’re seemingly, lucid or slightly awake, is it not bad for your REM.
Eric: There’s numerous studies on this numerous studies, as far as we can tell, we don’t really see any long-term or even short-term problems.
There are reported problems from other people saying, Hey, I’m tired when I do this, I’m very tired. As far as like brain scans are actually concerned, it is a discernible state. It’s discernibly different between REM and waking life. And it’s a hybrid of the two. So yes, there are many concerns from sleep scientists that say, Hey, This might not be good.
We could be doing significant damage here so far. We can’t find any damage. We can’t find any psychological or physical issues going on. That’s not to say in the longterm that there aren’t. I don’t know. I, it is personally, I don’t get tired at all from lucid dreaming. I feel perfectly rested, but I’ve talked to many people that say, listen, man, this is one of the reasons I don’t want to lose a dream anymore.
I’m exhausted in the morning. I can barely function throughout the day because of this. Yeah, it’s, it seems to be kind of 50 50, depends on who you are.
Lowell: Yeah it’s ike that half state, but maybe, you’re not doing it the whole night. How does time manifest in a lucid dream?
Eric: It very one-to-one I’ve known many people that say they can perform time dilation. This is pretty much all I do nowadays. I try to do time dilation and I’ve never succeeded, even, not even close. But some people claim to be able to experience a year. In their dreams. It feels like years they can have whole lives
Lowell: Now we’re getting into inception.
Eric: I have a lot of doubts when I hear these things too. I’m like, eh, it sounds like they’re just trying to impress people, but we could be wrong. A lot of people think lucid dreaming in general is ridiculous. I’m like, no, it’s definitely real. So that might be how those people are feeling when I say it. No,
Lowell: I immediately believe it because it’s happened to me before I’ve realized I was dreaming while I was asleep.
Eric: So you, especially when we directly experienced something there. Yeah.
Lowell: But I, I’ve had this thing where I would realized I was dreaming and I was trying to do something and like with flying and I couldn’t really get off the ground. And so just a little bit.
And so I assumed it was like a representation, just a dream I was having about how I feel powerless or something, but maybe it was, I just hadn’t practiced my lucid dreaming state.
Eric: That could vary, the topic of dream interpretation in general is very controversial to me, to my own mind, because I think that I really do think dreams are just mostly random.
That being said, I’ve had many dreams or I can’t help interpreting it and going, no, this is meaningful. This is very important to me. So I’m conflicted, even in my own self on that issue.
Lowell: What blows my mind. Tons and tons of people have the same dream, like the tooth falling out, like that’s super common.
And there’s some other ones too, that a lot of people have the naked thing or the college one where you think you’ve got to show up to a class till the exam,
Eric: right. Or if you’ve ever been a server, the server. Oh, I don’t know that one. Okay. So anyone that’s been in the restaurant industry, you all at some point have the serving nightmare where you can’t keep up with your tables?
My wife and I still get it from time to time. We haven’t been servers in many years. That’s another common one. How about the old house? How weird is it that so many people dream about the old hag in such specific detail? What is going on there? So I’ve had
Lowell: So I’ve had sleep paralysis once or twice before too.
Can you explain what that is?
Eric: Sure. So sleep paralysis, a lot of people think it’s like a disease or something. Everyone experiences sleep paralysis. The only people that aren’t experiencing proper sleep paralysis are people that sleep walkers sleep, talk, sleep paralysis is a necessary function of sleep to ensure that you don’t act out your dreams.
It’s important that you have sleep paralysis. So when people say, Hey, I had sleep paralysis. What they mean is they became conscious during that phase of sleep. So sleep paralysis is when you wake up during this state and you can’t move, you feel like you’re in a horror movie. It is admittedly terrifying the first time, your first few times you experienced it.
And you just, you feel like you’re completely stuck, but you can still move around your eyes and you can still you’re like, it’s terrifying. Very commonly. What people experience is they hallucinate that the reason they’re paralyzed is that there’s something on top of them.
And this something almost always comes in the form of what’s called the old hag. It’s Kevin, to me many times, it’s just this shadowy squat, old lady. That’s just menacingly staring you down and just staring into your soul hatefully. Why it varies? Just seems so fricking random, but it’s so common.
Lowell: Yeah, I didn’t experience that, but I do remember being scared and I remember being like, wake up. And I wanted to ask, I guess you mentioned. In the beginning that you were trying to help somebody stop lucid dreaming. And I going to ask why?
Eric: Yeah. So this was also surprising to me a few years ago, the first person ever came to me and said, Hey, I can’t shut it off.
Since I was young. I lucid dream, every single dream throughout the night. So five, six times a night. And it’s seven days a week. This is just endless. The reason was. Delve deeper into what was going on in their life. They had a lot of PTSD. They were they had done multiple tours and war.
I don’t want to give any specific information away, but they were going through a lot of mental issues and their dreams were just constant nightmares. Living these nightmares again, because they were experiencing endless lucidity. So they wanted advice on how can I win if I am in the lucid dream, how can I stop?
How can I fall back into it? And I gave them advice. There was hopefully definitely able to help them. They came back and said that Also, how can I just stop it completely? Unfortunately, I was not able to just stop it completely. I don’t know what to say in that respect. Maybe some type of substance.
I hate to have to depend on that, but if it’s that bad but there are many techniques we can utilize to shut it off. Other people have stated they want to stop it because they get tired. They just wake up exhausted and then they got work the next day. And they’re like, look, I it’s fun, but it’s not worth being tired at work.
I need to go, money.
Lowell: Yeah. So I guess some certain people will experience. But differently. And how about, to me it sounds amazing. Sometimes I am under the influence of maybe I had a couple of drinks or, some other like very mild substance or a Benadryl or something like it’s much harder with that
It’s significantly harder, most substances with very few exceptions. And we can talk about those are going to hinder and cloud and limit the experience. Especially alcohol. Alcohol is a big problem for lucid dreaming. Again, there’s there is always exceptions to the rule. I’ve met many people that are like, no, it doesn’t affect you.
Lowell: They probably had a glass of wine about 5:00 PM though. Not like a mixed drink right before they went to bed
Eric: The guys that say they, they get hammered and they have lucid dreams immediately after that. Oh, wow. Yeah. It’s very sad. It just shows you how unbelievably varied our brains are.
It’s just, there’s always excited. What’s the word,
Lowell: some kind of root my friend was telling me that’s supposed to be good for you.
Eric: There’s a few things there’s like blue Lotus. I’m not sure the route he’s talking. Yeah.
Lowell: She said I like muck root mud root. She’s going to kill me when she hears this because she listens too.
Eric: Probably. Mugwort. A lot of people like mug I’ve tried mugwort. It did, to be honest, it didn’t really do anything for me. I feel like I was spoiled by the plant that I used first, which is called this blows everything else out of the water. It’s unbelievable how effective it is. So you can use blue Lotus, you can use mugwort.
People talk about St. John’s. Nicotine patches do work as well. I just don’t recommend it for health reasons. Yeah, please don’t do that guys. But Calais Z it’s fully legal. It’s as far as we can tell safe, there’s not that many studies on it, to be honest, but you consume it as a tea or you can smoke it as a joint.
I’d rather just do the tea. It’s unbelievably bitter. It’s very hard to stomach, but it has no effects in waking life whatsoever. But when you go to sleep, the vividness and the recall is multiplied by a hundred. If it honestly feels like you’re tripping in your dream, it is unbelievably strong. I recommend fully legal.
Yep. You can just buy.
Lowell: I’ll link this stuff on the episode page. Yeah. I’m definitely gonna try it. I’m gonna order some when we get off.
Eric: Oh man. I, it’s unreal how effective it is. And like I said, you’re going to laugh because you can drink 10 cups and I’ve tranq a lot of at once before zero effects, no effects whatsoever during waking life.
Lowell: What are some of the most interesting things that you can do or should do when you start lucid dreaming?
Eric: So this is one of the biggest questions that come up for people. At some point you get bored of just flying around and using fire on people. And some of the things that I think hangups and banging up, come on, man.
You would’ve laughed if you saw how many personal messages I got after the Reddit AMA of people being like, dude, I didn’t want to bring this up, but I got to ask you about this and this. So some things that you can do, speaking of banging, alter your sex and experience what it’s like to have an orgasm as the opposite.
You’re blowing my mind right now. Okay. Yes, man. This is something I did constantly as a kid, to be honest with you. That’s amazing. Something else you can do is alter your, not just your species, but your entire state of being at the macro level. So become like a bacterium and experience what it’s like to travel through something’s body as a bacteria.
Another thing you can do. This is one of the most fun, in my opinion is just the ultimate roulette of walking through a mirror. You have no idea where you’re going to end up. It could be good. Could be bad, could be terrifying. So another thing we’d like to do is set up a chain of mirrors. This is something that a guy in LD for all came up with.
Lowell: This is another inception. Closes the two mirrors and it like breaks the, see, yes, this is it. This is it.
Eric: They just hired some lucid dreamers. Yeah, you set up the chain of mirrors and you just continuously go through them and create this infinite flicker of new scenery.
And so you’re just flying through thousands and thousands of different new things created by her. Something that I really liked doing is asking your brain for creative things. So as an author, I will ask my brain hate, show me the scene that I’ve been working on. Let’s see it end up in a way that I haven’t thought of before.
And it’ll show me a lot of musicians. I’ve heard utilize lucid dreaming, not just to help them with their songs, but to come up with the songs they’ll say to the dream. Give me some music I’ve done that many times before too. And I get songs stuck in my head that my brain made up, that I have no recollection of coming up with.
So that’s a very cool experience.
Lowell: I’ve definitely woken up before and been like, oh my God, that dream, the thought I had was revolutionary, of course it’s gone and like a minute or I just assume maybe it wasn’t that great. Let’s say when you’re first starting out, you just start, you hit your first couple of lucid dreams.
You’re getting the hang of it. What should you do to rain train or whatever, to get more.
Eric: The way you want to get more advanced is stick. You do want to stick to the basics. You do want to stick to your dream journal. A lot of people fall off of that because they’re like, oh, I did it.
I became a lucid dreamer. I’m done with that. Now stay on the basics. It creates frequency. It creates these algorithms that really hammers and ingrains all of this into your mind. But to really start getting good, you got to start utilizing. Some of the techniques that I’ve given my guide to, for example, you have to keep the dream going.
It’s very hard to keep the lucidity going. You fall back into the normal dream flow. So you’ve got to utilize techniques like saying increased lucidity. That seems to work for everyone. You just scream, increased lucidity and it increases or spinning on your axis for some reason that helps a lot too.
But really what you’re trying to do is get to know yourself. So for instance, I know that as long as I have music or something playing in my dream, it’ll keep me going. I won’t fall back into the normal dream flow. So at all times when I go into my lucid dreams, now I have this little speaker next to me, and it’s just constantly playing music of my voice included going you’re lucid stay awake.
You’re lucid. This helps significantly. I, it sounds silly, but a lot of people have just very specific means that they learn about themselves. If you really want to get to that super advanced state, though, this has to become a lifestyle. A lot of people don’t like that and they’re like, look, that’s what turned me off of lucid dreaming that I have to invest so much waking lifetime into this.
That’s what it comes down to though. The more time you spend investing this in your waking life and researching and reminding yourself and doing affirmation and doing a reality checks, the more advanced and more likely you’re going to be during your dreams to come up with this.
Lowell: But. You know how people talk about oh, you spend half, what does it say?
Half your life asleep, third or a third of your life asleep? No, it’s just wasted I don’t think it’s wasted, I feel like I do need that break from reality, but yeah. It seems first, let me ask this. Let’s say someone tries lucid dreaming for a week, 10 days, whatever.
And they haven’t succeeded. Like what advice would you give somebody at that point?
Eric: Step one of my entire guide do not get discouraged. The more discouraged you get, the more hopeless you feel, the less likely it’s going to happen. You have to believe this is going to work. You have to believe in yourself and give yourself positive affirmation, which is why the first lucid dream you get.
It just explodes your mind open. You’re like, oh, it is possible. Oh my God, this is possible. It’s much easier, but for the person that’s been doing this for 10 days, I’ll tell you this I’m a highly advanced lucid dreamer. Now I’ve been doing it for 20 years. It took me four months to get my first lucid dream.
And I was actively practicing. I am not an actor. So a lot of people are, they’re like, Hey, I tried it on my first night, dude. Thanks for the tips. What are you kidding me? I’m like so jealous. But yet do not get discouraged. You have to understand your brain is capable of this. Everyone is able to do this.
It’s just going to take more time. I’ve never heard of someone taking four months, man. I feel like, honestly, I look back on it. I’m like, holy crap. I sucked. How did it take you that long? Yeah. Most people they’re not that long.
Lowell: Have you ever had somebody not be able to succeed if they try hard?
Eric: No, I’ve never had someone not succeed to some degree.
The worst I’ve ever seen is a person who just couldn’t get control. They just, they kept having half lucid dreams. And it took them years. They got the half lucid dreams within weeks though, they were fully aware. They’d go to sleep. They’re aware it’s happening. They just couldn’t get that level of control.
They wanted, it took them a couple of years, but they did get it. So there’s a lot of variation, but for most people they can get there in a week, two weeks. Maybe you, most people, you’re going to get your first lucid dream. If you’re serious about this and you’re active during the day.
Lowell: Tell me about your guide.
Eric: This is a guide I published on one of my websites, wonder aggressive.com. I wrote it like bout 10 years ago, about maybe nine years ago. And it just covers step-by-step what you need to do to not only get your lucid dream but to retain your lucidity, it goes over different ideas of what you can do in your job.
It has a whole troubleshooting section. It covers Calais Z and all that. It’s just not only a beginner’s guide, but an intermediary guide to lucid dreaming as well to start it and to keep it going it’s totally free. I’ve had that’s what really got me into helping people since I published it on my site.
Tens of thousands of people reach out to me over the years. Which is very exciting. So
Lowell: I’ll link it on the website. Let’s say somebody is interested in getting some help from you. How did they go about doing that? Do you charge like what’s the deal?
Eric: No, actually for lucid dreaming and all that, I don’t. I do have a private business where I do a lot of consultation, but now as far as lucid dreaming, man, I really just want more people to be into lucid dreaming. I feel like it’s my quest in life to get more people into it for free. So if they can reach out to me on my website email (links in resource tab)
Eric: got to say one thing real quick. This blew my mind. This happened just a week ago. I had a woman reach out to me on my email and said, I did not know that not lucid dreaming was a thing.
My entire life, I have only lucid dreams. And just recently I got sick and I was in the hospital and I didn’t lose a dream for the first time ever. I didn’t even know people that could happen. Is there something wrong with me? Do I need to go to the doctor? I was like, no, it sounds like you, she said she’s 33 years old.
It sounds like you’re doing fantastic. I’m a remarkably jealous of you. But I, this was just very interesting. I didn’t know that. Yeah,
Lowell: That’s funny. Cause a lot of people synesthesia say that too. They didn’t realize that other people don’t have that. Like a lot of people with even disorders like ADHD and stuff like that, they don’t realize that other people don’t experience the same thing.
Remarkable. But so other thing I wanted to ask is what sort of studies back then? Yeah. For somebody who’s maybe skeptical about it.
Eric: Sure. Yeah. That’s this is what’s most surprising about me. When people doubt lucid dreaming, there are undeniable federal funded studies all across the world. There are dozens of dreaming institution, lucid dreaming institutions now devoted to objective empirical, fully.
Peer reviewed blind and double blind studies on this. We know without a doubt, not only is lucid dreaming possible. It is happening. It is a discernible state, completely hybrid and different from waking life and REM sleep. We have had people be given directions before entering a lucid dream. We have scanned their brains as they enter the lucid dream.
We can say, ah, yes, they are in a discernible state, different from REM sleep in waking life. And we’ve told them when you’re in there. Tap your finger six times, five times, then five times than to whatever it is. We give them a code and they can follow those codes over and over again with repeated validity.
So we also have a lot of studies on the therapeutic benefits of this. A lot of individuals with PTSD are studied on to see how lucid dreaming can help them and the results. The results are just absolutely incredible. It shows highly effective, especially for individuals where nothing else seemed to be helping.
They tried medicine, they tried cognitive behavioral therapy. It just wasn’t working for them. And lucid dreaming does work for them because again, they’re able to go directly back to those states in which the PTSD occurred, revisit it and become more comfortable. I
Lowell: there’s a lot of stuff, exposure therapy it’s effective, but it’s difficult.
So they’re doing a lot of different, research now oh, can you take ketamine? Can you take, psychedelics and then do exposure therapy because it’s makes it a little bit easier to approach. And it seems like lucid dreaming would be an effective way to do it.
Eric: Yeah it’s perfectly safe, right? Especially, you don’t even have to worry about Odie. I know that’s some of the concerns with some of these substances like ketamine, Hey, can we get this truly controlled? Which I think they can. I think it’s a fantastic substance, but as far as lucid dreaming is concerned, it could not possibly get more.
You’re never going to die from dreaming. So this is a truly effective and safe means of like you said, doing exposure therapy and the results speak for themselves. People can, all of this is freely available, hundreds and hundreds of different studies showing the exact same results. This is real, it works.
It’s highly useful. Awesome.
Lowell: I’m going to link all this stuff on the episode page, like where would you want people to follow up or check you out or get your book or what? Yeah,
Eric: by all means. So my main website is officially as fine.com. If anyone
Lowell: yep. Officially. Yes. Yes. E
Eric: I N E S F E I N.
You got it. Okay. And so if you guys want to check out the guide, that’s on wonderggressive.com. (links in resources tab) And if anyone wants to follow up with me, you can do it through the site. Absolutely. But I would love if anyone wants to check out my book, it’s called points of origin, very philosophical metaphysical space exploration a typical sci-fi book.
And I think you guys would like it if you’re into philosophy and you’re into, wondering about what the nature of reality is, you’ll be. That’s
Lowell: awesome. And yeah this is the second time we’ve recorded this episode because we upgraded your equipment. So I’m glad though, this is great.
But yeah. So you’re working on a podcast thinking about doing one about related to psychedelics, like, how is psychedelics like influenced.
Eric: Psychedelics have completely changed my life for the better I was born without a plan Toro muscle right pack and caused immense self-hatred and self-loathing and insecurity when I was young.
And I was very suicidal too. But yeah, psychedelics were the first thing in my life that really allowed me to see the world in a completely different way and see myself in a level way. And just accept reality for what it is. So at this point in my life, I don’t really do psychedelics anymore, but when I was in university, I tripped.
Thousands of times in total, on different substances. A lot of it also was for just self exploration. There was a great deal of therapy for an individual, extremely curious about the nature of reality and death in life to be able to explore areas that simply cannot be explored otherwise but are accessible to the mind often.
Deep meditation, which I’m getting better at nowadays. But at the time I was young, I didn’t really care about meditation and I just wanted the easy way and psychedelics can do that. Yeah. Especially things like Iowasca, I’m sure you’ve heard like DMT Bruce, these just allow you to connect to the inner workings of your mind and the meta programming of your mind at a level that you just, you weren’t aware that existed before.
It’s kinda, it’s really hard to describe in language to be yeah.
Lowell: Yeah, but it does like you get to experience reality through a different lens. And I think that even if it doesn’t like you don’t have some like grand revelation, like it is beneficial to see it from that other person
Eric: perspective, to know that there’s more out there to know that your ego and the way that you see the world is not the only way.
And in fact, it’s very limited.
Lowell: Reality is a lot about perception, right? So at least how you experience it. Yeah. What are your thoughts on microdosing as like a, potentially positive benefit for therapy or just, for like happiness? I
Eric: think it’s fantastic. I don’t personally microwave.
I’ve tried macro does I do macro dose. At least I used to write a macro dosing. It was more for me, but I’ve tried microdosing. I’ve, I’ve done tiny amounts of shrooms and tiny amounts of LSD repeatedly. It didn’t, I don’t know. It just to be honest, it disrupted me.
I would constantly just want to sit down and meditate and ponder that. Deep truths of reality. So it really hindered my ability to be a highly functional individual. But I know many people that’s simply not the case. I actually I would never use any names. I know a lot of people that are highly successful individuals with highly professional careers who microdose every single day.
Lowell: Yeah. You seem incredibly intelligent and you’re an academic too, right?
Eric: My private business that I run, I teach every AP class. You can imagine I’m an expert at numerous fields of study. So yeah, I really enjoy knowledge. I read three books a week. That’s probably part of it too. My cognition is just extremely fast at this point, but yeah, it, even for me, microdosing, didn’t.
So clearly it isn’t for everyone. But I don’t think that’s a reason to make it illegal or something if it helps people and it doesn’t cause issues. Great. It’s
Lowell: beautiful. Weed’s illegal and alcohol is legal and, we can, we don’t have to get into all that, but, and then you just, did you just have a baby,
Eric: We’re about to in two, three weeks.
Lowell: Oh, wow. Congratulations. That’s awesome. Yeah.
Eric: Thank you very much, man. We were very excited. Just getting the house ready right now. Getting ready for the crazy.
Lowell: Great. That’s really exciting, but yeah, it was great talking to you. Is there anything else that you want to say?
Eric: The only thing I want to say is everyone listening to this. You are important. You matter, people love you and you love people, even if you don’t feel it right now, there is love.